Materialism: Dropping Watermelons from Great Heights

Please give me instances which prove materialism?

-Dawkinswatch

You went to Dawkinswatch’s blog, you commented, he decided that the main reason we were all Atheists was because we were materialists, he wrote a new post.

Well… I think I should first make two things quite clear:

Materialism here does not mean the same thing as consumerism (just to make sure we’re all on the same page).

I’m an Atheist for the same reason why I’m a materialist. There is about as much evidence for a god as there is evidence fo ghosts. Nada.

It’s not that I’m an Atheist because I reject the possibility that there is a spiritual realm out of hand. It’s just as simple as this: If there’s a realm outside of our own, if it can affect our realm it will leave evidence.

Objection to materialism number one:

1) Many People Have Experience The Spirit World

People who have converted to Christianity have gone from believing in the non existence of God, to being filled with the Holy Spirit.  Well It is rather arrogant for those Atheists to dismiss their experiences.

Call me arrogant, but when Joseph Smith claimed to have experienced seeing twelve golden tablets conveniently shoot off into heaven I didn’t believe him, and neither did Dawkinswatch. Call me arrogant but when Travis Walton told me he experienced being abducted by aliens I didn’t believe him. Call me arrogant, but when the man standing on a street corner told me he had a vision of Puff the Magic Dragon coming and loosening destruction upon the Earth in 2012 I didn’t believe him. Call me arrogant, but people “experience” things all the time, not just the Holy Spirit.  Followers of voodoo have experiences similar to pentecoasts in that they try to be posessed by spirits. Muslims feel the spirit of Allah. New Agers feel “strange energy signals” from crystals and rocks. You dismiss all of those experiences, but choose to accept only those whose “experiences” support your beliefs.

Experiences are a part of empiricism and that’s all well and good as long as other people can verify your experiences. I’m perfectly prepared to believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn once you show her on a thermal camera, when you show me her footprints in the sand, and when I have eliminated all other possible causes of those phenomena.

While I’m at it… religious experiences, alien abductions, and ghosts can be induced by things other than gods, extra-terrestrials, and restless spirits. See article in Newsweek about Michael Persinger and his work.

2) Yoga and Eastern Religions are About Yoking with gods (spirits)

I have featured Yoga gurus claiming to have experinced visions of the Spirit world after opening themselves up to  the spirit world. Now to a materialist. this does not make sense, but I have been around when I felt the existence of spirits. Former guru speaksout on Yoga.

See above.

3) Muslims Meeting Jesus

In Fact this how many Muslims are converted they experience Jesus and see him. Muslims Visions of Jesus.

Again Materialists need dismiss everyone out of hand without giving reasons why that should be.

See above.

4) Have You Ever Seen A Hypnotic Show

Anyone who has studied hypnosis knows that it is Mesmer or animal magnetism.  Now mesmer was a magician, in these situations Atheist/Materialists see the physical manifestations and do not perceive what it is.

Er… Magicians don’t use spiritual or other-worldly thingies to make their trick work. They use slight of hand, psychology, etc.

Ever seen Darren Brown? Or for that matter, any magician? The good ones will usually tell you that they don’t use any psychic powers. Look up James Randi on YouTube, or Penn & Teller.

5) Theurgy

I have mentioned the likes of Sir John Dee, the astrologist to Queen Elizabeth I , was into Angel Magic and he once drew a grey alien called Lam who he was communicating with.

Now to make Freemasonry more acceptable his successor as the leader of the Rosicrucian, Sir Francis Bacon withdrew theurgy and cabala from the lower orders and reserved them for higher degrees.  Was Lord Bacon Shakespeare?

I once drew a picture of Harry Potter in my science class. Was I communicating with Harry Potter? I once wrote a horoscope and had a room full of people rate it’s accuracy and I averaged 4.1/5, but I’m not an “astrologist”. I just used a technique called Cold Reading (see this post).

As for the rest…

What the fuck?

6) Intelligence Experiments with Psychics

Well there is not demarcations between the world of intelligence and the occult some of the best spies were conjurers, Alister Crowley was a MI6 agent, Sir John Dee and Sir Francis Bacon were in valuable in the founding of British intelligence.  In “the Cold War”, both the KGB and CIA were heavily involved in psychic experiments.

Again, conjurers use non-supernatural methods.

Look, Bush got the intelligence agencies to say that there were WMDs in Iraq. I’m not all that impressed that the same people did experiments on psychics. Also, see Project Alpha.

Please give me instances which prove materialism?

Sure.

See your hand? What do you think it’s made out of? Phlogiston?

Take a watermelon to the top of a tall building. Make sure that nobody is bellow. Drop the watermelon. Record results.

In the mean-time, I think you’ll have to explain this comment you left on my blog last time…

– I should have really asked are you against the English Grand Lodge and in favour of Grand Orient Fremasons , the originators of Atheism.

The British believe in The Great Architech of the Universe.

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27 responses to this post.

  1. Wow, you were able to grok his post. I tried reading through, but I couldn’t figure out what he meant through most of it. The poster seems to be a bit disturbed or something.

  2. Posted by David on January 21, 2009 at 10:35 am

    I replied to his last post, but you’ve done such a good job here that I won’t bother. It’s clear that he’s seriously out of touch with reality.

  3. Posted by Alex, FCD on January 21, 2009 at 4:23 pm

    Shorter Dawkinswatch:

    If materialism is true, then how can colourless green ideas dream furiously?

  4. Alex, FCD FTW!, as the kids say these days. (The referent of the allusion had “sleep furiously”, but whatev.)

  5. Hey you. Thanks for that comment on my blog “Twilight Zone”. I don’t care what you say. I’m a die-hard Twilight fan and anything you say doesn’t bother me! Who ever said “Miss Skeptic” didn’t have the right to criticize Twilight? I sure never did. I just warned her because there definitely ARE people out there who WOULD form mobs and go after her. Trust me. I would know. And I never said it’s ok to be stupid!! I’m saying that Bella knows that she is being stupid by being with him since he’s so dangerous. That doesn’t mean she ACTS stupidly! Honestly, “Elles,” you should reread what you wrote and look at how ridiculous it sounds. It really does sound stupid. Twilight is NOT hurting America! It literally IS changing America! Please, do some research next time before you comment on my blog again. And also, let me say that we all have our own opinions. You have yours, and I have mine. yet some opinion is fact! And my opinion that Twilight is changing America is fact. Your opinion that Twilight is hurting America is strictly opinion.

    Oh ya, and the impression I have of you is not splendid AT ALL!

    Bye Miss Twilight-Hater.

  6. By the way, don’t call me a little girl you old lady!!

  7. Call me arrogant, but when the man standing on a street corner told me he had a vision of Puff the Magic Dragon coming and loosening destruction upon the Earth in 2012 I didn’t believe him.

    And for good reason, too.

  8. You have yours, and I have mine. yet some opinion is fact! And my opinion that Twilight is changing America is fact. Your opinion that Twilight is hurting America is strictly opinion.

    Abby, thank you for that. But I think you’ll find that you’ll get farther with proving that your opinion is fact if you substantiate it with evidence instead of merely stating that it is fact.

    Really, would you go around saying “My opinion that the invisible pink unicorn is a fact and your opinion that it is not is just an opinion” without any evidence?

    Oh, and by the way…

    By the way, don’t call me a little girl you old lady!!

    I’m fifteen years old.

  9. Many will be coming from far and wide to gather @ http://budurl.com/ESPBootcamp in Boise to explore the possibilities for integrating the Relevant Truth in daily life – Join us and learn to apply Magick in Your life too.

  10. Your link to DW’s new post in the first paragraph is incorrect. It should be here.

  11. Yeah, I just noticed that myself. I don’t know that I love Dawkinswatch enough to fix that, though.

  12. oh really? You’re 15? Ya right. And you want proof? Ok. Check out these websites:

    http://www.stepheniemeyer.com
    http://www.twilightersanonymous.com
    http://www.twilightmovies.org

    And here’s a website that says Twilight is a GOOD thing!!

    http://tinyurl.com/7qzekr

    Is THAT enough proof for you, chick?

  13. I would have answered Dawkinswatch’s question, but after going over his blog I saw some linked videos charging Elvis Presley of doing Satan’s work. And while that is certainly hilarious and entertaining, I just can’t take people who believe that sort of thing seriously. If this was 1930 he would probably be spouting off about the evils of jazz music. I would say the guy is disturbed, certainly.

    Splendid Elles, watching Dawkinswatch watch Dawkins so I don’t have to. 🙂

  14. Is THAT enough proof for you, chick?

    Reading is all well and good, but there’s really no point to it if it’s not read critically. I, personally, have yet to see evidence that Twilighters have improved literacy.

    Look, I never said I had a problem with people reading Twilight. I read Twilight, it’s why I’m critical of it, but nobody else is critical of it. All I’m trying to do is get people to think a bit more critically about what they’re doing.

    If anybody can find evidence of me at any time advocate the banning of a book I’d love to see it.

    Oh, and about Podblack… She may or may not have an agenda in promoting Twilight other than promoting Twilight given the timing of her post.

    Really, I’m saying that there’s no God and people are most mad at me for saying that Twilight is perhaps not the best book ever? This is either a wonderful thing (religious people are less religious) or a really really bad thing (Twilight fans are more religious about Twilight than religious people are about their religion).

  15. Whoa whoa whoa… you’re saying that there is no God???? Wow. Ok now I’m mad at you for TWO MAJOR THINGS!!!!!!! How dare you??? There IS a God and he is AWESOME!! He created everything. He sent His own Son to die for our sins!!!! And there is also a TON of evidence that there is a God. It’s called the HOLY BIBLE!!! You should read it sometime.

  16. It’s called circular reasoning. You should use your brain sometime.

  17. excuse me?

  18. http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A688287

    i.e. The Bible is true because God said it is true. God exists because the Bible is true.

    You used a fallacy.

  19. I can say hypnosis is real. It is not like it makes you superman or anything, but there are certain people who are supcetible to suggestion. One can measure it with the Stanford Supcetibility Scale. When they do, their minds disassociate, one part of consciousness doing the suggestion, while the other part of the consciousness being “hidden,” in psychology, that hidden part is called the hidden observer. Anyways, it is not like the hypnotist has a complete control of you or anything, but you will respond to certain suggestions.

  20. Ok, well God created the Word, and the Word was life. That comes from the Bible. And if you’re going to start stepping on my beliefs, then you better shut up because… oh I will get pissed like none other!!!

  21. Posted by michael on January 26, 2009 at 2:33 pm

    @Abby really? someone questions your logic and you feel the need to threaten to get all medieval on their ass? i don’t think Elles was “stepping on your beliefs”; she was just questioning how you arrived at your conclusion (I can’t speak for Elles, but that’s the impression I get from my limited exposure to her writings). Elles seems to be someone who will respect you weather or not she agrees with your conclusions. At least as long as you can give some logical reason for your conclusions.

    personally for me it is rather frustrating to speak with someone who is not willing to listen to other points of view. I’d rather they listen and say they are not ready to accept what i am saying then to tell me to shut up, or they’ll get mad.

  22. And if you’re going to start stepping on my beliefs, then you better shut up because… oh I will get pissed like none other!!!

    Oh good. Does this mean you’ll be tearing up the bill of rights? That’s the only reason I could think of to shut up.

    And thank you Michael. That is exactly right. I come across as bitchy at times… yeah, I should know better sometimes, but generally I always have some respect for people no matter what.

  23. No. I would NEVER do that, stupid. But I will get PISSED so SHUT UP!! And ya. You do come off b****y. YOU SHOULD KNOW BETTER!!!

  24. oh ya, and michael? what makes you think “Elles” has any respect for me? cuz apparently i go around telling people to be stupid according to her.

  25. You do come off b****y.

    😐

    But I will get PISSED so SHUT UP!!

  26. […] You can visit that blog to see what happened, but apparently Dawkinswatch is under the impression that we are all simply misguided  unbelievers in the supernatural. Elles did a splendid job of blowing his “argument” out of the water. […]

  27. Posted by dawkinswatch on February 11, 2009 at 11:29 pm

    Sorry to be this late my Atheist charms, Ofcourse you unsderstand that materialism is fairly new?

    Through out history there have been cases of theurgy and other non materialist phenomenon.

    Tell Me then why are Muslims seeing visions of Jesus all over the world? Did we put them up to it?

    What about The CIA and the KGB investing in psychic experiments?

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